But you were still living in Crown Heights. Yes.
Still living in Crown Heights. How is it that, for people who may
not be familiar with how schooling, districting and stuff work.
Sure. Sure. How is it that you were living in Crown Heights,
but then going to school in Bensonhurst? That's
an excellent question.
I forget how the whole thing... How we got in there in the
first place. But I remember us being bussed to Bensonhurst. We had to
take a bus in fifth grade to my public school, me and my
brother, and also we had some local kids in our area that went
to the same school. We got bussed there.
But there was one time that we missed the bus
and
it was like, "Well, how are gonna get to school"? But we had
a girl in our group, her name was Cheyenne. Respect to Cheyenne, she
was like, "I know how to get to school".
And we literally just followed her.
It was like about seven of us little kids
following Cheyenne, so three train led to the B train to get to school.
I was like, "Whoa" and you know... We rode the trains before,
but not without parents, but by ourselves it was like another world,
and I was like, "Yo, let's just take the train to school from
now on".
But we mixed it in. But sixth grade, we were bussed as well
early on, but I think they stopped it after two or three months,
and we just got train passes and went to school. But I forget
the dynamics... Actually I have to ask my parents about that.
Like how did that work? Yeah. So you mentioned by the time you went
to middle school or junior high school... Yes.
There was strife going on. Absolutely. Tell me
what that was. Sure, Sure. There was a lot
of racial strife going on in the city. New York City,
for those who may not remember, was in the throes of a major
recession in the mid '70s, and a lot of things got cut back.
Programs, services, the blackout of 1977,
I think there was another mild recession in the early '80s. Things were
very tense. The trains were always packed
and
you just felt a lot of tension in the city.
Things were happening on Wall Street...
I was like 11 12, I didn't know what's going on.
They are rising in fortunes, but still, a lot of the depressed areas of
the city still under pressure.
It was, the situation first started with Eleanor Bumpurs, a black woman
who got killed by police in her apartment in the Bronx,
that... This is like '84.
Michael Stewart, around the same time, another young man, graffiti artist,
police killed him in a train station, I believe.
These are things I'm becoming aware of, but I think the thing that
really blew my mind open in terms of what's really going on was Bernhard
Goetz. Bernhard Goetz was considered vigilante because some young brothers...
And this is to give you a backdrop, what was going on in New
York City, crime was everywhere, and mugging was like breathing.
It was typical to see a young youth
just walking in between cars and robbing people,
especially in Brooklyn, and that's what, Crooklyn is not...
The nickname Crooklyn comes from Brooklyn, this goes back to
the '70s, just robbing, marauding bands of youth robbing people.
But that was very... That was a daily occurrence, if you will, people
lurking around certain dark corners in the city.
Times Square, all types of ill repute, if you will.
But yeah, allegedly these youths accosted Bernhard Goetz and he pulled out
a revolver and shot them. I think three of them, and
they were like a lot of... It was a lot of
animus, a lot of angst about that situation, a lot of people were
riding for Bernhard Goetz because they was like these youths are an example
of what's going on the city, the city's lawless, and somebody gotta stand
up and... But other activists were painting another picture which was consistent
in terms of the discussions that were going on in my home,
as well as family's home, my other family and their homes and other
friends of the family in terms of... Yeah,
we don't like crime, but type casting young black men like that as
animals, and... 'Cause it was like a language that was painting young black
men as just lawless animals that need to be shot in the pasture somewhere.
That was like... This is in 1985,
and this was what's piquing my interest. Then it was the Howard Beach incident.
Howard Beach was uh, Michael Griffith. That was a turning point for me
in terms of my budding racial consciousness, if you will,
because I was the type of kid that
even in fifth grade,
I was the type of child that... Because I'm hearing things in my
home and visiting my relatives,
things like "black is beautiful" stuck with me.
So, I remember one time in fifth grade in the cafeteria,
I said...
Somebody said something to a girl, "You black bastard", "Yeah, but black is
beautiful", and they stopped.
I remember being in seventh grade
and in my history class I had a white teacher, happened to be
Jewish, and he said something... We were talking about the Civil Rights
Movement and talked about Dr. King a lot. We have utmost respect and love
for Dr. King, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. And I said,
"But what about Malcolm X"? , and the whole class got quiet,
'cause I only knew who Malcolm X was, because of my Uncle Yusuf had
a picture of him, like lying on his table. So
I read it. It was like a card
and I read it.
The teacher basically just goes off, paints Malcolm X, like a black devil,
if you will.
I said that, I was like,"Okay". But the Michael Griffith incident
where him and I believe his uncle,
they were in Howard Beach, and during this time in the '80s, I
could tell from personal experience like certain... Like Italian neighborhoods,
they would let you know, it got to 7:30 and then you gotta to
be outta here.
That was the climate in certain neighborhoods throughout the city, but in
Brooklyn yeah, and Bensonhurst and in Howard Beach which is in Queens,
it was like yeah, after a certain time,
you gotta get out of here. 'Cause something's gonna happen to you, cats
will chase you and... And that was a regular occurrence. I remember being
at...
Even as a black... I got on with everybody, people with different racial
ethnic nationalities and I would go visit their homes and I remember at
one time it got kind of close. And I'm in the school yard
hanging with my friends and it was like the older white guys or
teenagers,
and one of them said something, he's like, "Yeah, it's about that time
man,
you gotta get going." And that was the signal
'cause I felt... It started to get dark and everything. So I was like,
"Yeah, let me go jump on this train", I was like,
"Alright Tommy, I'll see you tomorrow." 'Cause
they gave me the signal I was like, "Yeah". But Michael Griffith, Howard
Beach incident... Him being chased across the highway and got hit
by an oncoming car by these white
youths or young adults, that set off a fire storm in the city.
Yeah.